Curse

Jessyi · Apr 19, 2006, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Ok, ok...I gave this thread a presuming title. Probably most of you reading this thread saw my rabid raving in the Favor taking the fun out of GW thread. I know most of you either 100% support or 100% despise the favor system (me being the latter) so we'll leave the bulk of the complaining there. I did a search for the suggestion I'm about to make, and while I found several threads related to the favor issue, I didn't find one suggesting what I'm thinking. So without further ado...

Right now the way favor works, you have to get 5 consecutive wins to gain it. Starting from scratch, that's a wait time of about 3 hours or more. If Europe holds favor and America wins HA 4 times and Europe wins after that, then America has to win ANOTHER 5 times. Doesn't anyone see a problem with that? (Yes...I know some of you don't).

The way I see it - the gods are fickle. They'll support whoever is whooping the most ass. If America has 4 (or 3 or 2) straight wins, shouldn't that count for something? Shouldn't that turn some heads up there in wherever the gods live? The way the current system works, if Europe holds favor, all they have to do to keep it is win once every 5 matches (in the most severe scenario). America could win 20 times and Europe 5 times and Europe will still hold the favor. You can probably see by now where I'm going with this...

The favor should be more like a tug of war (albeit a 5 way tug of war, but stay with me). If America has 4 wins and needs one more, and then Europe wins, America should then need 2 more wins instead of starting all over again. Basically the meat and potatoes of my suggestion is that whenever one region wins in HA, instead of resetting everyone's progress it should only subtract 1 win from the progress of the other regions.

It's probably asking too much for everyone to just agree with me...but leave your comments anyways. I'm trying to find some kind of middle ground here (if I can't have my way outright).

-Jessyi

Daemon Dremora · Apr 19, 2006, 05:25 AM // 05:25

i agree with you. but i really dont have a problem with how it works now. so i guess i am in the middle. but either way is good for me. but i do like what you are suggesting.

Dr Strangelove · Apr 19, 2006, 08:28 AM // 08:28

This sounds like how the factions lines in factions will work. It is lame that it takes so long to get. Why bother fighting for favor if you won't have it for another 3-4 hours? You'll have to leave by then anyway.

quickmonty · Apr 19, 2006, 10:06 AM // 10:06

Let me get this one in before the "nay sayers" start lobbing fire balls.

I agree that this sounds like a much better way to do it.

Quozz · Apr 19, 2006, 01:46 PM // 13:46

I applaud the creativity and initiative that the op shows, however, I still can't sign off on something that does not fix the inherent problem with the favor system. For a game that is supposed to promote team play I find it nearly impossible to organize a guild trip to the underworld/fow when our guild members are scattered throughout several time zones and only have a few times available on weekends when we can get 8 players together and even then only have a few hours to play as a group. Until PVP play no longer affects where we can PVE then the system will remain broken.

fiery · Apr 19, 2006, 01:53 PM // 13:53

Europe holding, E-0 A-3, Europe wins. America goes again fighting, I see no flaw.

Jessyi, I wanna know your partake, are you a Fower/Uwer/Farmer, or are you a HOHer?

Dougal Kronik · Apr 19, 2006, 02:20 PM // 14:20

/signed

This idea has some merit if they are not going to find a way for PvE players to earn their own rewards for access to the UW/FoW. It would allow the transition of favor to swing more often.

Ctb · Apr 19, 2006, 02:27 PM // 14:27

I agree with Quozz. The op's idea is excellent, but it still doesn't address the actual problem.

This wouldn't fix the problem, only make it a little more bearable.

That said, even if they did fix the problem, this would still probably be a better way to dole out the reward. One of the many reasons some people hate HoH is the enormous and frustrating timesink it can become because of the "all or nothing" approach.

lyra_song · Apr 19, 2006, 03:25 PM // 15:25

/signed

Tug-of-war VS 5 in a Row is MUCH MUCH better!!

It would certainly create faster turnovers and remove the instant shutdowns.

"4 wins...1 more and we get favor"
"Europe has won and keeps the favor"
"Son of a......"

xarchitect · Apr 19, 2006, 05:13 PM // 17:13

I would propose merging this idea with this one:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3013938

Make an area that is difficult to get to (good suggestion is between Beacons and Droks) that ALWAYS grants access, but is more expensive. But also provide a place where favor determines cheap access.

I like the tug of war idea, or maybe even modify it so that every time you zone wins it for the 5th time, you gain favor. That would allow the smaller/newer zones to get access more fairly. What I mean by this is over the course of the day (or week or whatever), America wins HoH 4 times. Not consecutive times, 4 times total. When they get the 5th win, they will have favor until another zones wins it for their 5th time. After the 5th win, the counter drops to zero. If this feels to frequent, maybe the wins count increases to 10.

Seems like the combinoation of these two ideas creates a PvE environment that does not rely on PvP for acces to the best places, it is simply rewarded for cheaper/easier access to them.

Sir Mad · Apr 19, 2006, 05:19 PM // 17:19

/signed

.. despite the fact that 1/ I'm european

, 2/ I have no problem the flavour system as I said in the topic the 1st post refers to. This idea should be implanted since the beginning, it's just common sense and justice. However I diagree with xarchitect but that's another debate :P

Hamanu · Apr 19, 2006, 05:39 PM // 17:39

First off, I think the OP's suggestion has some merit. It still wouldn't change the domination of europe though, as alot of people switched servers of late. Also, there's nothing in there that will help Korea or Taiwan. The five total throughout the day idea sounds viable, but again it's going to be pretty unreliable.

I think the main problem is that most of the pvp crowd really do not give a damn about the uw or favour, we're just playing to win the halls. Also, you have to remember that these days most of the pugs that are going to take the halls are formed in the IDs. This means that the group's 'nationality' is going to be a roll of the dice.

The solution that will please most people is still probably unlinking pvp and pve, but that's really not what anet wants to do. My suggestion would be something along the lines of a hybrid system. Have underworld access determined by another arena, similar to the RAs, that pvp characters can't access. It doesn't necessarily have to be random, but pvp characters definitely shouldn't have access. This would allow pve players who have never heard of words like 'metagame' a chance to have some fun pvp experience and give them a chance to take favour for their region. This would also have the side benefit of keeping the one serious pvp area besides gvg 'pure' if you will.

Undivine · Apr 19, 2006, 06:48 PM // 18:48

I support Jessyi's first suggestion to remove the damn thing altogether.

Barring that, his more recent suggestion in this thread, combined with the idea that xarchitect brought up from another thread sounds like a decent improvement.

Kool Pajamas · Apr 19, 2006, 06:50 PM // 18:50

I like the OP idea as long as the "tug of war" has a cap. Example. If Europe wins 15 in a row then America or any other shouldnt need to win 15 to get it back. Cap it at 5 so you never have to win more than 5 in a row to get favor.

Separate idea, changing it to 3 times in a row instead of 5 would help some too.

shardfenix · Apr 19, 2006, 07:08 PM // 19:08

You need 5 consecutive wins so that no team only has favor for 12 minutes.
Since it usually takes more than 12 minutes to make a GOOD group for UW/FoW

Jessyi · Apr 19, 2006, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Well, the important thing is that lyra_song agrees with me.

In answer to fiery's question, I am a FoWer and a UWer, though I have done solo and 2-man in these areas. I have certainly farmed in these areas vastly less often than going with proper full, or near full teams. I don't want to turn this into a farming thread so I'll just say this: on the occasion that I have done solo FoW or 2-man UW, the reward has matched the challenge. I like the me vs. the world challenge of it. There is no margin for error. I would like to be a HOHer, but it's something of a distant dream. I simply don't have the people for it, and I won't abandon the friends in my guild.

That said, I agree with Quozz, Ctb, and Undivine. If *only* it could be that way. It'll always be the dream.

Also, yes, the tug of war cap would remain at five. If it was implimented that a region would need 15 wins to gain favor, that would be a nightmare. Whoa...scary thoughts. Thanks for the point there though - I should have mentioned that more explicitly in my original post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shardfenix

You need 5 consecutive wins so that no team only has favor for 12 minutes.
Since it usually takes more than 12 minutes to make a GOOD group for UW/FoW

Well, I only have two things to say to that. First, when I'm standing in ToA while America has 1 or 2 wins left to claim favor, teams are already forming in anticipation. Sure it takes more than 12 minutes to put a team together, but we have LOTS of notice that favor is on it's way, so we also have more than 12 minutes. You don't have to start your team after your region gains favor. That leads me to point number two: While it takes more than 12 minutes to make a team, it certainly takes less than 12 hours, which is right now about the average daily waiting time for America, and a hell of a lot higher for Korea and Japan/Taiwan (who I'm pretty sure still haven't seen the inside of FoW/UW).

-Jessyi

Banin Galori · Apr 19, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

Let me get this one in before the "nay sayers" start lobbing fire balls.

*throws fireball*

Err... actually, I like the idea. It's certainly an improvement.

Arkantos · Apr 19, 2006, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Will people on american servers PLEASE stop complaining about this? I play on AS and I love going to FoW/UW, but europe owns america all the time. Think of it this way:
You play european server, and all the americans rant about favour. Would you not get mad that they want it to change cuz their jealous?
How would you feel?

Europe owns america, ANet should NOT change the way of favour cuz america is jealous.

Evilsod · Apr 19, 2006, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Jesus did the Europeans on here whine as much as you Americans when we rarely had the favour?

The moment you don't get the favour you start ranting about how it should be changed so you can get hold of it. If you care that damn much go get a good guild, go do PvP and hold the frigging halls yourself!

Jessyi · Apr 19, 2006, 11:35 PM // 23:35

It's official: the shelf life on this thread before it degraded has expired.

Bloody Death (and everyone else who has ever posted anything simlilar), do you know how...uh...illogical this arguement is? The one (I'm paraphrasing) where "those who are adversely affected by something have no right to complain BECAUSE they are the ones being affected"?

I know a lot of you complainers out there...those who won't even approach a middle ground with me here like to pitch this lame, lame story repeatedly. It doesn't occur to you that those affected have the MOST right to want change! Basically you're suggesting that when Europe suffered at America's hands, they had no right to complain, and now that the shoe is on the other foot, WE have no right to complain. As if, somehow, only those who have nothing to gain should be allowed an opinion.

Ok, well then. I guess all those movements out there...you know...women's rights, racial equality, and nearly any other social revolution you can name were all totally unfounded. You know, since THEY were the ones being affected I guess THEY had no right to complain. I guess nobody who ever suffered under an unjust system had a right to bitch about it. Of course, we could always adopt your solution and oppress everybody. Lordy what a rediculous arguement. I really, really hope I never have to hear it ever again.

I will repeat this again in absolute clarity:

The reason favor should be changed is NOT because America is complaining. It's because from DAY 1 SOMEONE HAS ALWAYS BEEN COMPLAINING. This doesn't have anything to do with jealousy! Jealousy and frustration make people talk, complain, cry out, yes! But that's NORMAL. That's TO BE EXPECTED. The squeaky wheel gets the grease dammit!

So how do I feel when people complain about the favor system? I FEEL THIER PAIN!

Please, please, please nobody EVER post this arguement again. It's SO terrible.

-Jessyi